Because the Right is Wrong.
Ouch! Even I wasn't that cynical.
Some of us took to voting for something instead of against something. What a novel, positive idea.Got any more Adscams for us?
Ouch! Even I wasn't that cynical.Yeah well the Green party piss me off "Oh we want to be in the debates because we run 308 candidates!" (hey that rhymes) Well guess what sunshine? You don't (and never will) have a seat in Parliament. Years from now people will think back to voting for the Green party and cringe at how stupid they were, sort of like the night they got drunk and porked the fat chick.Got any more Adscams for us?Hmmm? what was that Mark? Sorry, I've taken to only listening to people who didn't throw their vote away. what a novel positive idea that was. See, I'm one of those "strange" people who know that the Harperfuhrer and his regime winning by idiotic NDP/Green votes being taken from the Liberals is really great for the environment. Cuz when I think environmentalists I think Tories....P.S. sorry if I offended you and your tree hugger friends, maybe once you put down the bong you can seek revenge!P.P.S. Suck my balls.
"I've taken to only listening to people who"Yes, selective hearing does seem to be a Liberal problem...I believe there are medications that can help.Never mind that I'm Green (obviously), not a deep green, but green, I'm also a life long political observer. And I've been wondering for awhile if the number of 'leadership candidates' that the liberals have, the contentiousness of the campaign that the liberals are having, if they are going to enter a period of disintegration like the Progressive Conservatives suffered after Mulrooney. It isn't a certainty, but it is a possibility, then I wonder what the point of being Liberal for life will be?G.L.
The point of Liberal for Life treehugger is to fight for the best for this country, to fight against the idiocy of a one policy party such as yours, (and I know you guys bullshit like you care about other issues but we all know that'd go out the window if elected) against the regressiveness of the Conservatives and against the recklessness of the NDP. The Liberals are the only intelligent choice in Canada.Just like Conservatives want to fight to revert our level of rights back to the stone age Liberals want to move this country forward.And my statement about selective listening was in response to a statement made by a previous commenter, it was sarcasm try looking it up in a dictionary.
No no, treehugger is a different blogger. You can continue to claim that the Greens are a single topic party, but you know, our platform, which is being more widely read each election, proves the lie in that.I would argue that the Liberals are a one policy party though, the policy is 'Try to remain in power no matter what'.Strangely, it's the same policy that the conservatives seem to follow as well.Oh, and you didn't make a statement about selective listening, you made a facetious aside implying that you couldn't hear the previous comments on Adscam.G.L.
You're right flower child, I apologize for fuckin up your chi.
Crap, I almost forgot to mention how ADORABLE you are GL, pretending your party matters (look at us people voted for us too! over here! OVER HERE!) it's just so cute! You guys should put our environmentally friendly teddy bears that say "Green, no seriously we're a political party... No really we're not kidding." you're so cute.AWWWWWWWWWWW.
Ah, denegration of the opponents. My apologies for my part. Flaming doesn't become me. I also don't get the animosity from you, unless you're one of the people who realizes just how dangerous the Greens are to your party, and the other grey parties. Look: I'm a former conservative, my wife is a former Liberal (was even a member of the party in her University days). Then in 2004, we were looking for someone to vote for (cuz using the Natural Law Party as a protest vote was no longer possible, voting Liberal in 2004 had NO appeal, for obvious reasons, voting Conservative? Yikes, I couldn't even do that! Not as a 'Red Tory'.). So we looked at the platforms of everybody, willing to vote for who had the best one. The Liberal, Conservative and NDP all had interchangeable components to their platforms. Between the three of them, they had 1 and a half platforms. Not surprising considering all three of them write their platform according to what focus groups tell them, so parts of NDP and CPC platforms are interchangeable, parts of NDP and Liberal and Liberal and CPC also. And really, it was all such bullshit. I looked at the MaryJane party, and their platform was exactly what I expected, and then I looked at the Green Platform, expecting it to be on par with the MJ party. It wasn't, it was amazing. I found a party that I could vote FOR. I no longer had to throw my vote to a party of nonsense, I no longer had to vote against other parties and other candidates. I could actually use my vote for something positive.You can declare that the Greens are irrelevant, but your taunts don't make it so. As more and more people become concerned about Health and Environment, and are discontent with the Talk but lack of action of the big three parties, the Greens will continue to grow, and one day, we'll be heard clearly, and it will go beyond talk and Green actions will be taken. It's already started, I mean, all three parties and candidates have stolen parts of the Green Platform.G.L.
Ok fine, you wanna get into this? Let’s get into it. The #1 reason I hate the Green Party is because its mission is to fracture a Canadian political landscape that is already much too fractured. There should be 3 choices: If your Right wing vote for the Conservatives, if you’re a Centerist vote for the Liberals and if you’re Left wing vote for the NDP. These fringe parties do nothing but take votes away from legitimate parties that have a legitimate chance of rendering change in this country. There are millions of different viewpoints in this country because there are millions of different people in this country. But what number of parties is enough? 10, 20 50, 100, 1000, 32,000,000? (one for each person)I think not. This first thing is Minority governments are a total waste of time. I know since you’re a Greenie you’re likely all about the Proportional Representation garbage. I can’t tell you how much I loathe that idea. I’ve explained this to people who support PR over and over again but they don’t want to hear me because they don’t want fairness in government they want their party to have as much power as possible, you can deny it all you want but you’d just be spewing bullshit. That’s exactly the reason I don’t want it, I don’t want my party to lose power. But the second and far more important reason I’m against PR is because it’s not the perfect voting system that everyone makes it out to be. People who talk about PR talk about it like it’s the second coming of Christ when in fact it has just as many flaws as First Past The Post. Now I will grant to you, the actual method of voting itself is much, much better than FPTP. The problem is the results that come from PR. In FPTP the larger parties get more power than they should, in PR the smaller parties get more power than they should. Look at the 2004 election. The NDP got 15.7% of the vote but ended up with 50% of the power. With PR it would be far worse, conceivably a party obtaining 2% could end up holding the Parliament hostage. Now I’m not talking about them changing Canada in to a Nazi state or other such bullshit, but forcing concessions on a government that needs their support in Parliament lest their government falls. So 2% of the population gets to decide what they and the other 98% have to live under. How is that any more fair than FPTP? Now, I hear all this bullshit about how they’d all co-operate and live in one big happy family and it’d all go down like it does in other PR countries and that’s just what it is. Bullshit. Canadian politics have been adversarial since the country’s inception a simple rule change isn’t going to make everyone love each other.What I’ve proposed and what no one who supports PR is willing to accept because it would mean their party couldn’t obtain power far beyond their means is to find some sort of system, and I’m not a math wizard so I don’t know what it is, where the percentage of vote you obtain is directly proportional to the amount of influence you have in Parliament. PR proponents like to argue that PR would do this but it’s a lie as I’ve already demonstrated.Anyway, in my opinion the only reason the Greens are able to keep their heads above water is this ridiculous law where any party over a certain threshold gets federal funding, which I of course vehemently opposed. If I were made Prime Minister tomorrow it’s the first thing I would change. Let these asshole go out and slog through Canadian winters knocking on doors and asking for donations like EVERY OTHER FUCKING PARTY IN THE HISTORY OF CANADA has had to do. The Green party is the welfare party of Canada, they want my hard earned tax dollars handed to them on a silver plate, they want to be included in the debates because they used my money to bribe 308 candidates to run some of whom HAD NEVER BEFORE AND HAVEN’T SINCE SET FOOT IN THE RIDINGS THEY WERE RUNNING IN! Oh big fuckin whoop you can run 308 candidates, so if I want to be included in the debates all I gotta do is bribe 308 people to not even do anything just to let me use their fucking name, then I can stand there on an equal stage with the Prime Minister of Canada and say whatever I want. Hell no, get an MP in the House first, then we’ll talk. Every other party has had to elect an MP, why are the Greens so special? “Oh, well because we say so.” Fuck you. “Oh, oh but what about the Bloc? They didn’t elect any MPs” no, but they had MPs in the house. You don’t. Get a sitting MP to convert to your party and then we’ll talk.Finally even the Green party’s strategy is moronic. You think I’d even think about giving my precious vote to idiots who come up with this plan to try to break on to the national scene? You think I want this group of morons who so completely fuck up a beginner campaign being in a position where they could influence my government? Oh yeah lets spread the money around that’ll work. Why don’t you just pay enough to get 308 people on the ballot so you can get more votes and more money from that stupid fucking election law and then focus on a few key ridings where you have the best shot, go out and get high quality candidates that actually live in the fucking riding, and focus your efforts there. Get an MP elected and then wham you’re on Question Period, you can do press conferences on Parliament Hill, your leader gets in the debates and your national coverage explodes!Of course I hope you guys never smarten the fuck up, because if I’m really lucky I’ll die (I’m 27) before I have to see a fuckin Green in my Parliament.
Wow. Just...wow. That's a whole lot of vitriol.First of all, NONE of the big three parties have a god given right to the status quo. If they lose the faith of the electorate, then the people will go elsewhere. If you think this hasn't happened, then you haven't been paying attention. The Greens have valid concerns that transcend left, right or center. If you really believe that the environment isn't a concern, then why support the Liberal stand on Kyoto...and if it is such a concern, where's the outrage that the Liberals were in power for a decade and merely stood for Kyoto, they made no movement...just lip service. My point is, the Green Party wasn't made, and hasn't grown 'to take votes away from your favourite party', it came about because your party and the others had lost touch with reality, and with the concerns of a good portion of the electorate. So much for the complaint that 'they only exist to steal our votes'. That's just hubris...the Liberals don't own my wifes vote, the conservatives don't own my vote. It's HERS, it is MINE, and if they lose touch with me so much, I, and half a million other people, will take it elsewhere. The Liberal, NDP, and the Conservatives have no one to blame but themselves. If the Greens really were the fringe that you accuse them of being, they would be beneath your notice, because they would not be able to 'split your votes'. You, and others, are concerned because we are so successful.Now, as for minority governments being a 'waste of time', they are because of the way that the 'legitimate' parties treat Parliament. It is only when they have a majority, when they have more votes than their opponents so they can disenfranchise all the population that agrees with them, that they can get anything done. We get 'leaders' who can't abide and listen to ANY opposing point of view, not even within their own party. I believe that the electorate is tired of 'giving' majority governments because of the abuses they engender, and if you try claiming there are no such abuses, I'm going to taunt you with a complete list from the past 15 years. Perhaps it is time for the 'legitimate parties' to start looking for ways to survive minority situations, with more than three players. (BTW, where's the vitriol for that fringe party the Bloc?)You may be right that the Greens were only able to consolidate behind the funding given to parties that achieve above a certain percentage of the vote. But again, this came about because of the abuses of the other parties, being bought and paid for by corporate and private interests. Limiting this kind of abuse was necessary, but compensation for the loss of funds was also considered necessary. BTW, if you as Prime Minister erased this law, I think you would find that the Greens would be able to do much better than you expect AND that the liberals would suffer worse than the Conservatives.As for proportional representation, yes, I am for it...with a codical. I believe we should try different methods, including a hybrid house where 200 seats are distributed in a first past post system, and the final 108 are distributed by PR. I believe we should not be afraid to experiment with democracy to make it work better. I believe that such experimentation is better than playing the fiddle while smoke wafts by.Of course, only someone who doesn't understand long term planning and the goal of building the party would call the strategy used so far 'moronic', so I'll let that go. I will address the accusation of 'bribery', I wonder how you see the 308 candidates were 'bribed'? I'd love to see what you think they got out of it.The thing is, politics are changing. You resent the fracturing 'of the left', but I'm willing to bet that before Mackay betrayed the PCs, you didn't regret the fracturing of the right. If the left is going through the same kind of change (and I don't see it, because I don't see the GPC being all that left), then I don't have a problem with it if what evolves is stronger and more in touch with Canadians than the platform driven by focus groups parties of today.G.L.
It's just like talking to a Conservative. Which isn't suprising considering you used to be one. Only you could possibly be right. Well, I'm done talking to you. May the Green party burn in Hell.
In other words "how dare you be reasonable and show the flaws in my thinking!!"? Fair enough. I'm not on the net for the ad hominem.G.L.
Oh, and one last thought...you can wish the Green Party to 'burn in hell', but I doubt that there's much space there, what with the liberal party having taken up residence there since Jean Chretien left. Bwahahaha...Volpe...BwahahahaG.L.
Have fun permanently lookin at the House of Commons from the outside in.
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